I’m ready to move on from yesterday’s game now – in fact I’m looking forward to it. But there are two links I think readers may find quite interesting. Jsonline also linked to these articles. They are written by the former VP of the Packers Andrew Brandt over at NationalFootballPost.com. Brandt writes from the unique perspective of having had relationships with both TT and Favre (though I believe his not-so-good relationship with TT may have resulted in his dismissal – so there is likely a bias). Like I said, I’m Favred out but I just thought this was as interesting a perspective I’ve read on this whole thing in a while.
Read here for last Friday’s article and here for today’s article.
packergeeks 
November 2, 2009 at 8:34 pm |
ok her is the reality to all -being a Packer i hate to admit this but this whole Favre thing is irrelevant- we need an offensive line and some other holes fixed- as well as Capers waking up and using Kampman as he should- sorry to admit that we will have to wait a couple of years at least to solve this -til then –no super bowl-end of story
November 3, 2009 at 11:57 am |
Andy, I read those articles yesterday & was really appreciative of the man I’ve been bashing lately without really kknowing a thing about him. Now, I’m pretty sure he’s in the wrong field.
I just can’t see how anyone that such problems with intense discussions ever becomming really successful at his position. Let me say that I think his actions brought out the screaming child, prima donna side of Favre that none of us knew about but I don’t see how one could spend that much time with a guy who has revitallized the franchise, become virtually a national hero & icon, and holds about every record that a QB can hold & at the very least not have the decency to sit him down and say “look, here is the plan, now how do you want to handle it?”
I’ve been thinking A LOT lately aobut a GM’s job. So many things on your plate. Just look at GB. Driver while still a stud, is aging out. O-Line–need I say more. Coaches are having obvious discipline issues on the field. Players, defensivley, are starting to doubt & call out the coaches. Salary cap. Draft picks, Free agency & I’m sure the list goes on & on. Personally I think one is doomed to failure when he has a problem with “difficult conversations.” Rather than dealing with an issure it is just allowed to fester & eventually becomes the disaster that was Favre/GB’s divorce. As McCarthey states tiem & time again, it’s all about communication. It appears their is very little with TT, especially if it is a “difficult” situation. Now again, I am basing this on the article from a guy who spent nine yeasr with him as I have never met the man.
As far as him looking under every rock to find the best players–Puhleeze. IF that were the case I would think he would address free agency a little more. Think Berrian & J Allen. Drafting is no exact science and there is some luck involved. Barbre, Lang, Raji & even Hawk are all a work in progress at best. Matthews so far is the best pick in 2009 I think.
I’ll give him 2010 simply because with his type of philosophy change ain’t gonna happen over night. The ship needs righting and it needs to be pretty quick. A good start might be to have one of those “difficult conversations” with one Mike McCarthey.
November 3, 2009 at 12:07 pm |
I’m sorry, I have to start readin these things.
The first paragraph should read I “was really appreciative to learn something about the man I’ve been bashing….”
November 3, 2009 at 12:12 pm |
56 – thoughtful comments. I agree, being a GM has to be a very difficult job in terms of balancing so many different situations at once. And, I share your concern re TT’s apparent inability to have the difficult conversations. (I find Brandt’s perspective on TT’s communication credible not only because he’s works with him, but because TT’s social persona (largely a shy one) goes hand in hand with conflict avoidance. I also thought Brandt’s comments about Favre having “tirades” was interesting.
November 3, 2009 at 12:19 pm |
Wanna hear Chilly tallk about BF’s groin-follow this. I don’t know how he kept a straight face.
http://www.startribune.com/video/?vid=68688217&elr=KArks5PhDcU9PhDcU9PhDcU5PhDco8P77jyPhU
November 3, 2009 at 5:28 pm |
Basically Favre is who he’s always been. He’s been playing the game to win, compete and have fun. And he still is. Despite rumours saying Favre actually no longer wanted to play with Green Bay, that may not be completely true. Maybe he is a bit edged just with how things were going but I think a person like Favre would of stayed with Green Bay. He from my point of view would not just give them the finger and walk away.
Some may think well he did betray Green Bay. But he came back wanting to play football. Look many I mean many players at some point wish they could be on a team that was a strong contender in the latter parts of their career, especially for someone who wants to win. And who doesn’t want to win? So you can’t judge Favre from that, and while he may of wished, I think he was still willing to make a run for it with Green Bay still.
But when Green Bay can’t take him back because it was too late when they moved on, it doesn’t mean Favre should go and retire. He still wants to play despite the team feeling that they’ve gone too far and going back was probably not the best idea. I mean I hope Favre understood that, and I think he did. The media though, may of understood that too, but turned it into a circus. A situation like that that took place is something that never happens. It’s a very sticky situation that is hard for both sides. Green Bay could of lost alot if Favre came back. Christ we were 6-10 last year without Favre, and the issues were not at QB. Favre may of gotten us a few more wins, but not enough to be worth throwing away the moving forward progess we would of done. Issues last year were far from the QB position and Green Bay did make the right choice.
The thing that bothers me is the way media is taking it. Favre unretired because he wanted to play. He was going to stay with Green Bay, but Green Bay didn’t have time to go back. They said no, leaving Favre to say well than I will play elsewhere. For a player to go to a new team, it does make sense Minnesota. Not to get revenge. Not to stab the organization in the back. What were they missing? Great Defensive line with a productive defense, Great Offensive line, Outstanding Running backs, Subpar Receivers, Bad QB. A place with alot of the keys outside of the quarterback position that needs a QB is Minnesota. No other team had that formula. Of course he wanted to go there, but Green Bay wasn’t going to trade him there, and you see why this year.
Look it’s been a messy situation that could not of ended with smiles. If we went back to Favre, the team would have some big problems the following years. Look we got problems as is, and the future in the other direction would of been scary.
We didn’t want to see Favre beat us twice while in command of our rivals. But we know best what this guy is like. He was great in his prime. But what is even more impressive putting aside any records or anything he has accomplished is how he still can do it. 40 years old is very hard for anyone to continue to play at a level he is. Some thought him going to Minnesota was about managing and controlling the game. Let AP do the work, and throw high completion balls. But right now, Favre has actually taken control himself too. He is playing really good football. Smart, and we all know he’s smart. He’s not doing anything stupid and thats huge from a QB position. He is still making very nice throws. Tough throws.
You have to be proud of how this guy is playing. Doesn’t he deserve some respect? He made any Packer fan love the game, love watching the packers. I always enjoyed watching the games, they were so fun with Favre at the helm. It was great having Favre, all he did for us. And someone like Favre whose been a part of the fans his entire life, everything he went through. It may be the rivals, but he’s still that guy we can never forget.
And I would just like to point this out. What has Favre done that has been dissapointing or annoying or whatever it might be. A few things yes. I mean the flip flopping retirements and being on the rivals don’t bode well. But I just explained the whole rival thing and we, especially packer fans who I believe are excellent should be able to understand and respect that. We are packer fans, fans who have 30+ years on the season ticket waiting list, a never ending streak of soldout games with a stadium 70% the size of its home town. Things can’t always go our way.
And Favre hasn’t killed anyone. Hasn’t been doing drugs (yes he had a painkiller addiction in the past, I view it differently whether it’s just me who feels that way) and hasn’t been running his mouth. All those off field complications between the organization, the fans or anything like that. He’s been with us through the ups and downs, whether we struggled or were succeeding he was there. And he can’t be perfect, there will be times were it wasn’t perfect. So having a player like that, doing everything he did, and never becomming a problem to the team or off the field, you can’t forget it all and not respect him.
Cheer for Favre, not the vikings. If the packers are out, give Favre the respect and see if he can get all the way. How can a “packer” fan hate Favre suddenly now, after he was basically the air we breathed for 16 years. Nothing is perfect and it can’t always end how we want it to. The Packers will always be my team, but Favre is a packer face, and I’m not a packer fan if I can respect him.
Opinions will always be different, class and respect never change.
November 3, 2009 at 5:38 pm |
I’m not cheering for Favre or the Vikings. I don’t hate Favre but I’ve lost all respect for him. Not for wanting to play but for lying, for airing all his dirty laundry in the media, and for saying I’m not a ‘true Packer fan’ for being unhappy he is in Minnesota. I could go on but that is the major issues I have with him.
I don’t respect someone just because they can play a sport well. I respect them because they act with integrity and class. Favre hasn’t exhibited that. He retires, un-retires, re-retires when MM and TT were willing to come and make the announcement, un-retires saying he either wants his starting job or complete release, finally goes to the Jets, retires, demands his release, un-retires, and now is playing for one of the Packers biggest rivals. And while doing that he lied on multiple occassions.
Had Favre in June/July of 2008 come and said privately to TT and MM ‘I screwed up, I shouldn’t have retired and I want to play. I want to play here but if I can’t let’s find something that works for both sides’ I would have wished him well and rooted for him if it wouldn’t hurt the Pack. But he didn’t.
I still appreciate 16 years of mostly good memories. And I will always treasure those. But support a guy who plays for the Vikings, lied about my team, and told me I wasn’t a true fan? Heck no.
November 3, 2009 at 5:51 pm |
How do you know those were all lies? I’m telling you the media is a thing of beauty. It twists anything and everything into something else. Favre may of not said what really happened but did TT or MM? And some things if Favre may of said or TT or MM, would of been turned into something way worse because of media. A lot goes on behind the scenes.
No one can like the flip flopping. But Favre thinks he’s done and he can’t do it, he can’t stay retired. He still thinks he can play, and he knows as the season approaches, he still wants to play. Not fun for us of course. And yeah its kind of childish to be so back and forth but its annoying, and every person out there are annoying in some way.
If there were apologies, there is no guarantee we would of heard them. It may not have been something the media even heard and was a private conversation that did not leave the room type thing.
Maybe the dirty laundry shows who Favre really is, or some of the things that really happened. Up until then, Favre hasn’t really done anything to indicate he’s that type of person. And we have no clue what exactly happened and what was exactly said. Favre should of just kept his mouth shut, but if its the way it sounds, some of the things that were said or done sounds like it would piss him off. Look we can’t do much judging on either side cause we don’t know what happened on either side.
November 3, 2009 at 6:04 pm |
They were lies because they were demonstrably false. For example, he said he was told either Rivera or Wahle would stay if he came back and then after he made the announcement that he would return they were let go. However, both were let go a couple of days before Favre announced his return. There is also the fact that the 4th of July weekend Favre said he was staying retired and then a week later he was telling the Packers he wanted to be released. I can find more examples of his lies if you’d like. This isn’t a he said, she said. This is Favre making comments that are demonstrably false.
Favre only has to open his mouth to find half a dozen microphones waiting to catch every word and yet he’s never apologized, he’s never claimed to have apologized. This isn’t the media not reporting it – it is Favre has never apologized. In fact he’s told fans that we need to move on and get over it.
Yes, everyone has annoying characteristics. But that doesn’t mean I should support Favre. He plays for the Vikings. And regardless of what went on he’s acted like a twit. And since he no longer plays for my team I have no reason to like, respect or support him. If you want to, that is fine. You have the right to do so. But don’t tell the rest of us that we should forgive and forget everything that has happened.
November 3, 2009 at 7:20 pm |
I am an intern for Ticket King and think your site is great! We are looking for Green Bay Packers Sites to advertise on, if you are interested please contact me at tkintern@yahoo.com
November 3, 2009 at 8:37 pm |
“Had Favre in June/July of 2008 come and said privately to TT and MM ‘I screwed up, I shouldn’t have retired and I want to play. I want to play here but if I can’t let’s find something that works for both sides’ I would have wished him well and rooted for him if it wouldn’t hurt the Pack. But he didn’t.”
There were 3 teams that wanted Favre, (Bucs, Jets, and Vikings). One of those teams wasn’t an option for Thompson in the Vikings, thats fine.
But, remember Favre and Gruden both said they thought he was headed to the Bucs (warm weather team, west coast offense, familiar coach, team coming off a 9-7 record). Yet Thompson trades him to the Jets, which even with their offseason acquisitions, just weren’t a great fit. So I ask, who says the Packers were willing to try and find a partner that would have been a good fit for Favre? I’m not sure they were.
The Packers looked out for their own best interests in this situation. No one calls them out on their behavior there. So, when Favre looks out for his own best interests and goes to the Vikings, he’s a horrible person for doing so. Why the double standard?
November 3, 2009 at 11:22 pm |
The Packers asked Favre for a list of acceptable trading partners – Favre refused. He demanded his release. If you aren’t willing to work with people you can’t get pissed when you aren’t happy with the final solution.
Creating a spectacle and going on TV and calling someone a liar is also not the best way to get what you want.
November 4, 2009 at 12:43 am |
We both know when it came down to the Jets and Bucs, he would have rather played on the Bucs. Thompson traded him to NY because it was in his best interest that Favre not succeed after leaving GB the way he did. Favre did what he did this offseason because it was in his best interest to play for a veteran team that was ready to win and played to his strengths.
Now, do I defend the way Favre handled himself, absolutely not. But, I won’t chastise him for playing on the Vikings. If he wants to be effective and win at this stage in his career, thats the team he needed to be on.
November 4, 2009 at 1:43 am
Yeah like everything Favre did may not of been the best, or handled in the best way. But Green Bay didn’t handle it all that well either. Either way it wasn’t something easy to do, just one of those situations you wish never occured.
Now Favre wanted to come back to the pack. But they said no. It was too late. We all understand that part, and its not a stupid move by the organization. Anyone who disagrees with that clearly needs to rethink themselves. With Green Bay saying no, Favre won’t just ok fine then I’ll stay retired. Thats what Green Bay wanted. But Favre has to look after himself too. He wants to play. He’s not going to just go to Oakland or something stupid. He wanted the best option, clearly as everyone could see, Minnesota. If not Green Bay, the place I will have success is very likely Minnesota. Plain and simple.
Instead of complying with them he wanted to be released. If your not going to take me, then release me. Let me go play somewhere else. It can’t ALWAYS be for the organization. He gave them a chance to take him back and they rejected. He put them first, they said no. Well now its his turn to do whats best for him. Thats why Favre was in such distress over it. Green Bay is preventing him from going anywhere where he could have success.
Some of the things TT/MM said or did obviously rubbed Favre the wrong way. In a situation like this, some of the things can bother you. Whether it’s a statement or action it doesn’t matter. Now if Ted goes and says something to the media that is not completely true or just doesn’t relfect the entire situation, it makes him react strongly. It doesn’t make it right for him to call someone out, but then again, why shouldn’t he, if it’s true. You don’t know for a fact. And how many players, coaches lie? Lots. They don’t always give the full truth. I mean if everything that came out of his mouth was false, there is something wrong. But thats not the case.
And to just get over it and move on. Yeah maybe its time. All these disscussions. How he wants revenge, how he betrayed Green Bay. If thats what you think keep it to yourself. I mean half the problem with this whole thing is they are annoyed with all the news and drama, and you think it helps that everyday its being talked about? Calling him out as a traitor and he is an absolute joke. That clearly is helping the situation right? Comeon.
It’s like everyone expected this to work out on a clean slate with nothing left behind. But I can’t see how it could of worked out better. The only thing I could see is if he stayed retired for good. Favre loves the game without a doubt. Absolute passion, just watch him play. You will see, just his actions. He is out there having fun. He loves the game, and while he may love the spotlight too, I wouldn’t call him a T.O or anything. I mean there are far worse who just want it to be about themself. But as I was saying, if he retired for good, the whole thing wouldn’t of happened. But a guy like Favre, who loves the game realizes he still wants to play, that he’s not done is not going to hang it up. After 07’s heartbreaking loss in which he threw that pick, how many people in Favre’s position would want to come back. It would be tough, just thinking you know what, maybe thats it. But after he had some time he realized, no, I still have to play. I know I can, and as long as I can play, I will want to. Thats him. So the situation couldn’t of been avoided or turned out any better. If he doesn’t retire (which he didn’t) the best way for the situation basically is what has happened to this point.
And basically my entire point with everything is how Favre has been the same guy he’s been for nearly the last 20 years. He’s the same guy we loved. The same guy we cheered for every game. The same guy who took our hearts in that Oakland game in memory of his father. The same guy whose been with us as much as we’ve been with him. So its not a picture perfect ending. So its not how we wished or hoped for it to end. Forget it all? Even if you say you’ll remember the past but ignore the present? Look what he’s doing. He’s still playing, doing everything he’s always done at such a high level. Playing probably close to his best football. It’s not for Green Bay, but he’s not in Minnesota just to beat Green Bay. And maybe if we just stop with all the hate, this will end and we don’t have to have a messy divorce with someone whose been everything we’ve had for years.
November 3, 2009 at 11:56 pm |
I’m Favred out as well. My sister and I have been arguing since Brett joined the Vikings. She calls me “a hater” because I won’t support Brett with his new team. I consider myself a Packer fan, first and foremost. I can’t cheer for Brett as long as he’s a Viking.
November 4, 2009 at 2:40 am |
I stumbled across packergeeks about 2 years ago, and was really jazzed to find a source of intelligent discussion about football. Felt I was learning a lot. Ever since this mess started, however, packergeeks has degenerated into a bunch of drunken women sitting up all night pissing and moaning about their ex-boyfriends. When a woman says “It wasn’t the cheating, it was the lying,” trust me, it was the cheating.
If everybody who says “I am so sick of hearing about Brett Favre” would just stop talking about him we all could have moved on by now.
I posted once before, questioning what exactly it means when we say we ‘love the Packers’ or ‘hate the Vikings.’ Teams constantly change roosters, coaching staff, management, for other teams sometimes even cities. Do we just love the sound of their names? It’s like saying ‘I love Microsoft’ or ‘I hate IBM.’
I grew up in Wisconsin and I always tell people that love of the Packers is in the water there, but now I wonder. I posted one other time and AW wrote:
“Being a Packer fan means you realize how much Packer fans hate the Vikings. What does being a Packer fan mean to you, or are you a Vikings’ fan now?”
Made me think. I lived in San Francisco during the 70’s and 80’s and loved the Niners dynasty years. Always felt like a girl about it, like “gee, I’m not a real football fan.” But what’s wrong with getting swept up in the gestalt of a certain team’s era?
No doubt it was time for The Organization to Move On; Rodgers is talented if not compelling and maybe he’ll be great. I still love Brett Favre, and I can’t understand why I am supposed to hate the Vikes so I guess I’m not a Packer fan. Can’t seem to take my eyes off Pgeeks though–like a train wreck.
November 4, 2009 at 8:31 am |
Farve did not want to play in GB. What’s my proof. If he did he would have. He was in a meeting with MM and TT and was told he could compete for the starting QB job. gee, I wonder who wins that competition. During that a break in that meeting, Favre got on the phone with ESPN and told them (before he told TT and MM) that he was not going to be playing for GB. Farve did not want to play in GB.
And, this fits perfectly with everythign that Brandt wrote about Farve being frustrated with GB for not putting together a veteran team to help him win another Superbowl. Farve did not come back because he wanted to play – he came back to the NFL becuase he wanted to find a team that was ready made for a Superbowl run. His “I don’t have time” reply to TT’s draft centric vision pretty much explains why Farve was never going to be a Packer again.
November 4, 2009 at 10:38 am |
Was it ever substantiated that in fact, there would have been a true QB competition between Brett and Aaron? It seemed like the Packers were committed to Aaron at that point.
November 4, 2009 at 11:29 am
Rodgers comments around the time certainly seemed like he felt there would be. He also seemed confident that he would win.
November 4, 2009 at 12:13 pm |
Ben, yes it came down to the Bucs and the Jets. But a) we don’t know what other teams were initially interested and were scared off by Favre’s demand for his release (and the possibility that he then wouldn’t show up to the new team after a trade) and b) we don’t know what happened behind the scenes that let to him being traded to the Jets and not the Bucs. We do know Tannenbaum talked to Favre and gave him the hard sell – he may well have convinced him.
As for chastising Favre for playing for the Vikings. If you don’t want to, that is fine. But in the minds of a lot of fans there is are a lot of reasons to be pissed at him. For one thing, playing for any division rival after 16 years starting for a team is going to cause consternation. I don’t ‘hate’ the Vikings, but given that they want me to pay for a new stadium that would benefit me not at all and them quite a bit I don’t like them. I also don’t like them because they play my team twice a year. So I want them to suck every year. So I will root against them and everyone on the team. Secondly, going to to a division rival and saying that ‘true’ fans will understand and that fans need to move on is also going to cause consternation. Finally, saying that coming back the previous year was at least partially to stick it to TT and then going to the team that likely tampered and is the team he wanted to go to when he was coming back to stick it to TT creates the impression that this is at least partially for revenge. And that’s going to really cause fans to get angry. You say that you won’t defend how Favre’s behaved but that you won’t get mad at him for playing for the Vikings – the problem is that the two are entertwined. His bad behavior in going to the Vikings is what is causing most of the problems.
Travis, the Packers didn’t say no initially. When Favre wanted to come back the first time they said ‘Sure, we’ll come down and make the announcement’. He said ‘Sorry, changed my mind. I’m staying retired’. When he did it again right before training camp they had no reason to expect that he wouldn’t change his mind again and in doing so would permanately damage their relationship with Rodgers. Favre never put them first. If he had he wouldn’t have kept them waiting year after year for his decision about whether or not to come back and limiting their ability to make decisions about free agents, the draft, etc. If he put the Packers first he wouldn’t have had Bus Cook putting out feelers in 2008 when he was still retired. He wouldn’t have gone on Greta Van Susteren and lied. He wouldn’t have created a spectacle for training camp.
Favre isn’t the same guy we ‘knew’ for his career in Green Bay. Remember when he called out Javon Walker for wanting out of his contract? Yet he also wanted out of his contract when all of a sudden it wasn’t to his liking. The Packers didn’t do everything the way they should have. But that doesn’t justify acting like Favre did. The Packers have yet to say anything negative about Favre, a favor he hasn’t returned. The Packers wanted to work with him to find something they could both live with – thus the request for acceptable trading partners. Favre wouldn’t work with them. And when has Ted Thompson demonstrably lied? I’ve yet to see an example of that, whereas there are multiple times Favre has been caught in a lie.
Favre doesn’t love playing the game – if he did he wouldn’t do everything he could to get out of off-season work. If you truly love playing something you are willing to put in the work to make sure you do well. Skipping OTAs and the first three weeks of training camp? Not exactly evidence of true passion. Letting hurt feelings push you into retirement? Not exactly evidence of true passion for the game. Needing to be on a team that us full of veterans rather than being willing to play with anyone? Not exactly evidence of true passion for the game.
November 4, 2009 at 12:56 pm |
Yes, Tannenbaum gave Favre a hard sell, but still, Gruden and Favre both thought he was going to Tampa right up until the trade happened. So, I take that as he would have preferred Tampa.
As far as Favre and bad behavior. I consider it bad behavior to go on Greta and talk about internal Packer matters. That wasn’t cool. However, him actually going to the Vikings isn’t bad behavior to me, thats a guy who wants to win and realized it wasn’t going to happen on the Jets.
And as far wanting to stick it to Ted vs. just wanting to win. I’d just say this, prior to the 2008 season, it was probably 80/20 in favor of sticking it to Ted. Before the 2009 season, being a year removed the situation, I’d venture to say it was 80/20 in the other direction. Its hard to stay angry over such a long period of time.
Also, I have no problem with booing Favre and all that. What I had issues with were all the extra-curriculars (funeral for Favre, burning the Favre merch on youtube, giving him the finger on the bus). I mean, there is such a thing as booing someone and maintaing your class. Some Packer fans did that, some did not.
Your comments about Favre not loving the game because he doesn’t like OTA’s and wants to play on a winner are dubious at best. He loves the game, but he’s also a competitor and wants to win. Whats he supposed to do, “hey, I just love to play, trade me to the Raiders and thats cool with me.” Come on now. Now, I think he should have been more committed to working out in the offseason’s and such, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t love playing the game and doesn’t work hard once Training Camp actually starts. From what I hear, he’s at the Vikings facility more than any other player on that team.
November 4, 2009 at 2:20 pm |
If Favre had a preference he should have worked with the Packers from the beginning rather than demanding his release. You don’t get to say ‘my way or the highway’ when the other side has all the leverage (i.e. a signed contract) and then get pissed off because you didn’t get what you want. Actions have consequences which is something Favre doesn’t seem to get. He didn’t want to accept that by retiring he no longer was the starting QB for the Packers. He didn’t want to accept that by playing hardball he lost all his leverage in a trade negotiation.
Going to the Vikings is bad behavior. Partially because he was the face of the franchise until he decided to retire (and un-retire and retire and un-reitre) and then went to one of the Packers biggest rivals. But also because he basically has managed to insult an awful lot of people while doing it. He dissed the fans who supported him through an awful lot, he dissed the ’96 team and he lied. That is bad behavior.
II don’t care if coming back was only 20% wanting to stick it to Ted Thompson (although I think it higher – Favre lives on that kind of motivation). That 20% is not just wanting to stick it to Ted, it’s wanting to hurt the Packers. And as a Packer fan I’m not okay with that.
Seriously, why do you care what other Packer fans do? And why should that affect anyone’s view of Favre being on the Vikings? People are frustrated and need to vent and that is what they are doing. Some of it is appropriate, and some of it not. And believe me I’ve seen worse things coming from Viking fans regarding players that are actually still on their team.
As for Favre’s alleged passion for the game, if he was truly passionate about it (heck, even if he was just passionate about winning) he’d be willing to put in the work during the off-season to ensure he was performing his best during the season to help his team. He’s not willing to do that anymore. He wants to show up for the fun stuff but not for the two a days, not for OTAs, etc. He didn’t even want to try to learn about his new teammates this off-season until after they had already played a pre-season game. If you are truly passionate about something you do everything you can to be your best and get the people around you to be your best. You shouldn’t need people to beg you to come back, you shouldn’t need resentment of someone to bring you back and you shouldn’t only sign on after the hard part is already done – i.e. after you get a really good team together and they’ve finished with the tough parts of training camp. You play because you want to play and while you’d prefer to play on a great team and win a championship, the ability to play every week should be enough to draw you back. If you need to be persuaded to play you don’t have the passion anymore.
November 4, 2009 at 4:32 pm |
Ya, I guess on the first part, I’ll give you that. Favre should have been willing to give more of a compromise regarding where he was headed. Still not sure if Favre said to Thompson, “hey Ted I’d really like to go to Tampa” I’m not sure Ted would’ve just gone along with that. But, who knows.
On if going to Minnesota was bad behavior, still don’t buy it. Minnesota was the best fit for him, whether they played in the NFC North or the AFC North, he would have chosen to go there. Name me a better fit for him that needed a QB, you can’t. I won’t fault a guy for going to the place where he has the best chance to succeed, especially when he only has 1 or 2 years left.
And the best team (specifically “physically, and from a talent standpoint”) he’s been on comment, he’s since gone back on that. I think he kind of got caught up in the moment in a post-game presser. I do think this is the best team he’s been on since those 2 Super Bowl teams. On offense, I think he has more talent around him than that 96 team, especially considering the fact that injuries really hurt that 96 teams offensive production around week 7 or so, until they got Rison. And special teams may be a wash. Harvin is just as much of a gamebreaker on Special Teams as Howard was. He’s special, and he can play receiver pretty well for a rookie. Defense is where that 96 team really outclasses this Viking team.
Other Packer fans can behave any way they want to regarding Favre. But I have a right to call out childish behavior, whether the culprit is Favre, Thompson, McCarthy, or the fans. No one is above criticism.
As far as the passion, only Brett himself knows what kind of passion he has for the game. All I know is this, he is playing some of the best football of his career. I don’t know how you do that if you don’t have passion and are just going through the motions.
November 4, 2009 at 5:04 pm |
I think it would have been more likely for TT to go along with Tampa if Favre had suggested it along with other non-NFC North alternatives (and basically proved it wasn’t a revenge thing) and had Favre not called him a liar. The fact that the Packers asked for a list suggested they were willing to work with him. But when a guy responds to a compromise by dissing you in the media, you know that isn’t going to work.
From a purely football aspect MN was a good fit. But from a ‘am I screwing the people who supported me for years’ aspect not a good fit. Like I said, this isn’t entirely about him playing for the Vikings. It is the manner in which he did it. Even you said that around 20% of his coming back is likely to stick it to Ted Thompson. That means 20% of his playing for the Vikings is trying to hurt the Packers. And I’m suppossed to be okay with that? This isn’t about one last shot at glory – if he wanted that he wouldn’t have retired in the first place. Heck, if he wanted that he could have stayed with the Jets. The Jets were consider contenders until Favre’s play detoriorated at the end of the season. He obviously by then was familiar with the players and the offense. Yes it would have been a new coach, but going to MN meant a new coach along with new teammates and a new area.
By all means, call out behavior you view as childish but the issue of the fans behavior really doesn’t seem related to a discussion about Favre’s behavior. It seems like saying “well, yes he was childish but people responded childishly so it’s all okay”.
Trust me you can do something at a high level with no passion for the act itself. Talent and anger can do that. The question that I think needs to be asked is, if Favre wasn’t pissed at Ted Thompson (i.e. the 80% of his motivation from last year and 20% from this year from your view) then would he still be playing? If you need revenge to motivate you then how much passion do you have for the act itself?
November 4, 2009 at 5:33 pm |
Done with the first argument. Thats been explored enough.
I’m not saying you have to be “ok” with his decision to go to the Vikings. By all means, boo him all you like. Just don’t act like he’s Judas for going to the best football team that needed a QB. Like I said, if the Vikings were in the AFC north and had all the same elements (indoors, familiar offense and coaching staff, AP, etc) do you honestly believe he wouldn’t have gone there? Be honest.
The Jets are a decent team, but they just aren’t a good fit for Favre. That offense they run (whatever the hell it is) doesn’t play to Favre’s strengths (where was the slant in that offense?). And playing indoors, rather than in New York in December and January, could alleviate some of his recent drop-offs in those months. Oh, and Adrian Peterson, nuff said. He’s putting up some of the best numbers of his career, and teams are STILL gameplanning to stop Peterson first, letting Favre pick them apart. Thomas Jones doesn’t command anywhere near that type of respect.
No, it doesn’t mean its all ok. It means that Favre and Packer management acted like children, and now many fans have joined in the fray. Thats all it means. No one gets off the hook.
The last thing on the passion argument, I’ll say is this. He has passion (as evidenced by working hard once Preseason games start and like I said, spending the most time at the Vikings facility than any player on that team). However, I would like to see more passion in regards to offseason activities. So, I’d agree to saying that he does have passion, but at this point, not as much as a Peyton Manning or a Tom Brady.
November 4, 2009 at 7:19 pm |
First of all, when have I ever said he was Judas? I, and most Packer fans I know, have lost respect for him and now that he’s on the Vikings are rooting against him.
I don’t think he would have gone to the Vikes if they were in the AFC. Because all the positives the Vikes offer, besides the indoor stadium, the Packers offered and he retired. The Packers were coming off a 13-3 season, at the time Ryan Grant looked like a fantastic back, the defense looked good, he had arguably the best receiving corp in the NFL, and was an overtime game away from the Super Bowl. That wasn’t enough to bring him back. What was? Trying to stick it to Ted Thompson. And now he’s a year older, had to have surgery on his arm, has a partially torn rotator cuff, and having to adjust to a new team and deal with the fact that he screwed the fans that supported him for a decade and a half is enough to bring him back and revenge wasn’t a significant motivator? I doubt it. He had a lot more negatives to overcome this year than last year, and basically the only positives were an indoor stadium and getting out of having to work in the off-season.
The Packers management didn’t act like children. They have yet to say anything negative about Favre and aside from putting their version of the events out to counter Favre’s version they’ve largely tried to keep their mouths shut.
You didn’t answer my question – would Favre be playing if not for the revenge factor? And if not, how much does passion for the game does he actually have? Spending time during the season is great, but when you let yourself fall behind by not working in the off-season then you’re not putting in the full effort. Do you think Charles Woodson sits back and relaxes every off-season? Does he try to get out of training camp and stuff? No. He works hard so that he can be the best. As does Donald Driver. All veterans, all guys who could get by skipping some of the less fun things. But they don’t.
November 4, 2009 at 9:18 pm |
He did want to come back and play football with the Packers, but he made his decision too late, after we had committed to Rodgers. We didn’t take him back, the rest is history. Unless your going with that Aikman comment that never wanted to come back with us at all, which is pure speculation.
Now that I think about it, I messed up the timeline. When he first decided to come back and play for the Packers before Training Camp, this was before Packer management had told him they were sticking with Aaron. So, obviously, his first move to come back and play was because he wanted to play football again. Problem was that he made up his mind way too late. When Thompson gave him the cold shoulder, thats when the revenge became a factor. But, then again, he made the decision to come back and play before Thompson pissed him off and revenge entered his mind (because, logically, he had no one to get revenge on yet).
I seem to remember Packer management doing there Favre was using a Packer cell phone story, and it ended up blowing up in their face. From there, they kept quiet on doling out dirt. If that had gone over better, they might have kept doing it.
So, taking into account that he actually did want to come back and play for the Packers (yes he made the decision too late, but at the end of the day, he did want to play here), he then saw the Vikings as the next best candidate for his abilities as a QB. There was no other team that was ready to win now, that was a better fit. Thats why I wholeheartedly believe he would have went to the Vikings no matter what division they played in. They gave him the best chance to win, and as an added bonus, he had the opportunity to show Ted first-hand, that he could still play.
November 5, 2009 at 10:46 am |
Ben, how do you explain Farve’s calling the Detriot Lion’s people while he was a Jet to tell them all about the Packer offense? Is that the work of a Judas or traitor? Is that someone seeking revenge? Or was Favre just “shooting the breeze” with the Lion’s coaching staff and the topic of the Packer offense just came up?
November 5, 2009 at 11:52 am |
One thing really puzzles me. Well actually there’s a lot that puzzles me but I’ll just bring this one up for now. I just cannot understand why in the world the Jet just let him go with no compensation. I mean they could have at least got a 3rd round draft pick or something but no, they just let him go.
I’m beginning to think we SHOULD have traded Favre to the Vikes last year – probably could have gotten a 1st rounder + other compensation. Percy might look pretty good in green & gold.
November 5, 2009 at 12:09 pm |
The Jets had to let him go. If he would came back, his 13 million dollar salary would have pushed them over the cap. They didn’t have the luxury of being 20 million under the cap like the Packers were.
November 5, 2009 at 11:53 am |
Ben, if he wanted to come back and play for the Packers why was Bus Cook calling other teams looking for interest? Why was he talking to Childress and Bevel? And why did he come back to the Packers and say he wanted a release rather than saying he wanted to compete for his starting job?
TYour timeline doesn’t make sense. You claim that he wanted to play for the Packers and it wasn’t until Ted Thompson gave him ‘the cold shoulder’ that revenge entered the equation. Yet Ted Thompson didn’t give him ‘the cold shoulder’ until after Favre had called saying he wanted to come back. And Favre himself admitted that coming back last year was partially to stick it to Ted – yet his decision to come back occurred before Ted Thompson had said he couldn’t come back. In fact when Favre initially changed his mind Thompson and McCarthy were going to fly down and make the announcement.
What evidence do you have that the Packers were the source for the story about the cell phone? If statements about Favre made by people who know him, such as Aikman’s comment about Favre not wanting to play for the Packers, is speculation than saying that an unnamed source is obviously someone from the organization trying to discredit Favre is also pure speculation. As is the idea that ‘If that had gone over better, they might have kept doing it.’. You don’t get to pick and choose what to speculate on in order to support your views and ignore what contradicts it.
As for your final paragraph, your argument doesn’t work. Favre had been talking to Childress and Bevel prior to telling the Packers he wanted to come back. And Bus Cook had been calling other teams. Nor did he come in and say ‘I want to play’ he said ‘I want a release’. This was not after Ted Thompson gave him the cold shoulder. In fact, at this point Thompson had welcomed him back when he first changed his mind and offered to fly to Hattiesburg to make the announcement there. He also stopped by later to talk to Favre. That isn’t a cold shoulder. And by this time he’d already been talking to the Vikings and other teams. When offerred a chance to compete for the job, something which he had to feel he would win, he refused.
As for the Vikings being the next best fit, that isn’t true. Tampa was coming off a season where they had been to the play-offs (something which wasn’t true of the Vikings), he knew Gruden, it was a warm weather climate, closer to Mississippi, and they needed an upgrade at QB. And it wasn’t in the NFC North so he wouldn’t risk hurting the Packers. Yet, his one acceptable team was the Vikings. Any team would allow him to show Ted he could still play. He just wanted to be able to beat the Packers twice a season. There is a difference. The former is wanting to prove yourself. The latter is wanting to get revenge.
And you said you call out childishness, yet you seem just fine with Favre wanting to hurt Ted Thompson, and by extentsion the Packers. That seems pretty childish to me – and is one of my bigger issues with his behavior. He was willing to essentially hurt the fans who supported him through his worst moments, the teammates whom he had played with (some for years) and the organization that was partially responsible for his career just to get back at a guy who wouldn’t put him, Favre, above the team?
November 5, 2009 at 12:21 pm |
I have no idea what was going on with Bus Cook and other teams prior to Favre announcing that he wanted to come back. Or for that matter, what Favre was talking to Bevel about prior to announcing that he wanted to come back to the Packers. Was Bevel a friend of Favre’s, yes, could they have been talking about trying to swing a deal to the Vikings, yes, could they have been talking about normal things that friends talk about, also yes. Pure speculation either way.
If you remember the Packers timeline, he wanted to come back a couple weeks after his retirement, and the Packers allegedly were willing to take him back. However, he changed his mind again. Then, then accounces later that summer that he wanted to come back to the Packers, but by that time they were committed to Aaron. Therefore, my argument stands, he wanted to come back to the Packers, but made his decision too late. Revenge didn’t factor in until Packer management made their committment to Aaron.
I think you are wrong about Tampa being a better fit than Minnesota. Not that Tampa was a teriible fit, but remember, they won 9 games with Jeff Garcia playing some pretty good football 2007. Tampa getting Favre would not have been as big a difference for that team than Minnesota getting Favre, where they managed to win 8 games with awful QB play. Plus, again, Adrian Peterson was/is one of the most explosive players in the NFL. Tampa has/had nothing like him.
Well, who was the source for Favre owning a Packer cell phone. Who, outside the organization could make such a claim?
Again, Favre decided to come back to the Packers first, when they said no, he wanted to go to Minnesota. I have no problem with him in Minnesota as long as it was his 2nd choice to Green Bay, which is what the evidence leads me to believe.
November 5, 2009 at 12:21 pm |
Let’s cut through the crap. Bent’s gone. Bent’s a Queenie. Bent’s the enemy. Therefore he is a monumental AZZ. From the day he signed with the Queenies no Packer fan has an excuse for supporting him period. I don’t hate Bent anymore than I hate Longwell, The Williams blobs, Sharper before he signed with the Saints, or Allen. I hate him the same!
Get back to me when he retires!
November 5, 2009 at 12:37 pm |
See, I find this to be more reasonable than anything else. No Packer should feel the need to root for Favre. But, there’s also no need to hate Favre than there is Longwell or Culpepper (when he was a Viking).
He’s just a player on a division rival at this point. Nothing more, nothing less.
November 5, 2009 at 1:22 pm |
BBen, yes Bevel was a friend – Childress was not. And he was talking to childress as well as Bevel. That is what doesn’t make sense. He wants to come back the Packers, but he’s not talking to anyone on the Packers – he’s talking to the coaching staff of the Vikings – the team he wants to play for. Also, according to your timeline, he wants to play for the Packers until the team gives their commitment to Rodgers. But Favre demanded his release when he talked to Thompson around the 4th of July, before they would have told him they were committed to Rodgers. Favre himself said that part of coming back was to stick it to Ted Thompson. He came back before they could have told them they were committed to Rodgers in your timeline since you don’t have them making that committment until AFTER he tells them he wants to return (for the second time).
Nor was Favre willing to compete for the starting job and if he actually wanted to play for the Packers you would think that would be something he would be willing to do since he felt he was the better player.
The facts don’t add up to Favre wanting to play for the Packers. Much of it is speculation and circumstanstial evidence, but with this type of situation that is the best you can get. What we do know – there were reports of Cook calling around asking teams if they were interested in Favre, Favre was talking to multiple people on the Vikings coaching staff but not to people in the Packers organization, Favre initially demanded his release specifically to play for the Vikings – the team whose coaching staff he’d been talking to during the off-season, when offered a chance to compete for the starting job and thereby get to stay in Green Bay he refuses, Andrew Brandt says that in his opinion that Favre was frustrated with TT’s handling of the team and Troy Aikman says he felt Favre didn’t want to come back the Packers.
Tranted, most of that is hearsay and speculation. But the evidence Favre wanted to come back? His statements that he wanted to come back which given that he was saying he was staying retired until days before he said he wanted his release raises suggestions about his veracity.
As for Tampa not having Adrian Peterson, that is true. But they don’t play in a dome, something Favre struggled with for many years, it’s closer to his home, they had actually made the play-offs and John Gruden is arguably a better coach than Brad Childress.
For the cell phone story, it could have come from an awful lot of people. Like the people who claimed this year that Favre’s family had reserved 60 hotel rooms for last weekend. Or the people who claimed Childress was flying down to MS when he wasn’t during the summer. Unnamed sources can be anyone who has even a remote connection to the story. I never read McGinn’s article since I don’t have an Insider subscription but most of the quotes I’ve seen from other sources it never says a ‘team source’ just a source. You would think that if it was a team source McGinn would have said so to give his story more credibility.
As for Favre being just a player on a division rival, I disagree. He’s not just a player, he’s a former player who (even you admit) is at least partially playing on the Vikings because he wants to get revenge on the Packers. I know that most Viking players, such as Jared Allen, get very fired up playing the Packers. That is understandable – they are division rivals and those games are important for playoffs as well as bragging rights. I don’t think any of them are actively trying to hurt the Packers, as Favre is doing. And that’s a big diference for me.
November 5, 2009 at 2:10 pm |
As far as what he was talking to MN management about. If I had to guess, I would speculate it was, “I’m trying to get back on GB, if that doesn’t work out, you guys are my next choice.” Again, speculation.
When Favre asked for his release, I was under the impression that Packer management told him that starting for the Packers was “not an option.” The idea of a quarterback competition came later.
And then, when Favre and McCarthy met and had their 3 hour conversation (which they should have done fromt the get go), McCarthy said Favre’s mind was not in the right place to start for the Packers. So, after that meeting, I’m not sure a QB competition was still on the menu.
As far as Favre in domes. When he was first thinking of signing with Minnesota, I saw a post on a message board which showed his stats in domes since 2000, and they were very good, somewhere around a 95 QB rating.
The cell phone story, I’ll grant you, could have come from anywhere.
As far as Favre actively trying to hurt the Packers. At this point, he can’t do anything more to actively try and hurt the Packers than try and beat them, which is exactly what Josh Freeman will try and do (and fail) this weekend. It comes with the territory when you are wearing a different colored jersey.
November 5, 2009 at 4:41 pm |
Ben Teams don’t just release a commodity such as Favre for nothing. I can see there are probably 2 reasons they released Favre. I completely forgot aobut the 3 1st pick clause in the contract with the Packers. If the Jets traded him to the Vikings they gave up the picks to GB. Rather than try to get compensation from a team other than the Vikings they felt it was better for their team to just release him rather than go through the circus/temper tantrum that has become Favre.
Pretty smart thinking on their part I suppose.
I’m with Ron. Call me when he retires. I root for the laundry–not the players of another team.
November 5, 2009 at 5:05 pm |
Why would Favre have any reason to think that the Packers wouldn’t work out – after all they welcomed him back the first time. If he was actively trying to get the Vikings as a backup that would suggest that he knew that the Packers likely weren’t going take him back and would suggest that revenge came into play prior to Favre announcing his intentions to come back, which is earlier than your timeline would allow.
It doesn’t really matter when the QB competition came up because even when it was an option and would give him what you claim he wanted – to play for the Packers – he refused. How much could he really want to play for the Packers if he wasn’t even willing to compete for his job – something he surely thought he would win?
As for his meeting with McCarthy, if Favre truly wanted to play for the Packers shouldn’t he have been able to convince McCarthy that he wanted to do that? You also haven’t addressed the fact that Favre said that part of the reason he came back in 2008 was to stick it to Ted Thompson. Not part of the reason he came out of retirment was to stick it to Ted. Playing for the Packers and potentially leading them to the playoffs or SB wouldn’t stick it to TT – it would make him look good. So the idea that Favre wanted to play for Green Bay seems contradicted by his own statement that he wanted to stick it Ted Thompson when he came back. As well as the fact that his agent was calling around asking other teams about their interest, his demand for a release rather than to play or working with the Packers for a trade, refusing to compete for his job, etc.
Favre was up and down in Domes, even at the end. The Dallas game is a very good example of his crashing in a Dome even at the end of his career.
Josh Freeman isn’t trying to the organization itself – just beat it. Favre wants to hurt Ted Thompson and thereby the team. Do you think that the media crap last summer didn’t affect the team? Or that the hype around the Viking games this year didn’t affect the team? That’s different from just playing to win a game.
November 5, 2009 at 6:14 pm |
I don’t when he talked about the Vikings being a 2nd option to Bevell (even that is speculation) in comparison to when Packer management was telling him “brett you can’t do that, your putting us in a tough spot.”
Once Favre was told Aaron was the guy in GB, then thats when revenge entered his mind. Therefore, once starting in GB was no longer an option (or a questionable circumstance, given whatever the QB competition was going to be), then his decision came down to retiring or playing for a team not named the Packers. Therefore, his “part of my decision was to stick it to Ted” came into play in that decision. So, like I said, going to the Vikings would have given his best chance to win outside the Packers, and sticking to the Ted was also a possibility.
As for the meeting with McCarthy, I’m sure Favre got extremely emotional (surprise). McCarthy obviously didn’t like what he heard, and decided he didn’t want Favre disrupting his locker-room. Its not like it was a mutually exclusive proposition that he wanted to play for the Packers but was also an emotional wreck at the time.
As far as Favre in domes since 2000. Look at the numbers. You can’t just take one game (more specifically a quarter and a half in one game) and say he wasn’t much better in domes than outdoors. Domes vs. outdoors, his numbers were much better in domes since 2000. Thats fact, not speculation.
Well, maybe I just don’t care about Ted Thompson’s feelings. Favre is doing the same thing that Josh Freeman is trying to do, beat the Packers, the rest is emotional crap that isn’t relevant at this point.
November 6, 2009 at 12:33 pm |
All this he-said, they-said blather boils down to one thing. The minute TT drafted Rodgers, Favre knew his Packer days were numbered.
Thompson’s entire philosophy was to to build within the team and the draft and he wasn’t going to deviate from that mindset no matter what Favre wanted/demanded and frankly I saw nothing wrong with Favre wanting Moss. Tom Brady lobbied heavily for the same guy and was rewarded with an MVP season.
I’ll say this to all of you and the continuing Favre discussion. I don’t consider him a traitor or a Judas. The Packers wanted Rodgers, and Favre had earned the right to go wherever he was wanted.
Causa Finita..the matter is ended. The fact that he nailed our collective posteriors in the Dome and the Lambeau tundra and had an exhilarating time doing it….there are worse things under the sun.
The word is out about AR’s propensity of hanging on to the ball too long and not being able to “win a big game”. He had ample time in the Lambeau game. Let’s hope he overcomes both “problems” otherwise Favre and talk of Favre will NEVER go away.
November 6, 2009 at 2:49 pm |
Campbell I agree with you. I woke up relatively healthy this morning and no one was shooting at me so yeah, things could be worse.
I too wish Aaron would get rid of some of those balls but there are some where he just didn’t flat have time too. I don’t think you can hang the “can’t win the big game” label on Aaron yet. When has he had a fair chance to? He’s either dealing with dropped balls, running for his life or dealing with poor play calling.
Personally, I have no problem with Rodgers at all. I do have a problem with the O-line & am beginning to seriously doubt the coaching & front office. If things don’t get straightened out & if I were Aaron I would demand a release from my contract. One requirement of a valid contract is it must be of a legal nature. Having to fend for your life cannot be legal.
November 6, 2009 at 3:50 pm |
Thompson is wasting the prime years of Rodgers with poor line play and lack of a stud compliment on offense (I thought Jennings was that, but not so much this year).