More on Derrick Frost, Jon Ryan


So I started this post on Wednesday afternoon (before the Seahawk-Cowboy game on Thursday).  I see that Bob McGinn beat me to it in this morning’s JS Online — with actual reporting to accompany his statistical analysis.

Mike McCarthy said Derrick Frost will remain the Packers’ punter. So some stats.

Frost is ranked 26th in the NFL in average net punts. (Ed: There are five worse?) His net is 36.4. His gross average is 42. Jon Ryan, who has punted nine times more than Frost, is ranked 18th in net, at 37.3. His gross (45.9) makes him the 9th ranked punter in that category, Frost is 27th.

It’s hard to believe that there is not a better punter out there than Derrick Frost. But I think we can safely say at this point that this experiment has been an utter failure.

A few additional thoughts after reading the McGinn piece this morning.  Mike Stock is an idiot and his thinking, as reflected in the comments he gave McGinn, reflect the kind of deep coaching insecurities that lead to failure.  Stock was asked about Ryan’s claim that the Packers discouraged Ryan from working with an outside punting specialist.

“I don’t believe in those things, and I’ll tell you why. One voice is the most important thing when you’re coaching a team or a player. You can’t have two different voices, especially long distance.”

Let me make the obvious point.   One voice is plainly not the most important thing when you’re coaching a team or a player.  The Detroit Lions got rid of Mike Martz in order to have their “one voice” be Rod Marinelli’s.  How’s that working out?  The most important thing, of course, is results.  And Derrick Frost , even with the benefit of having only one voice, sucks.

McGinn asked whether the specific skills of punting make consulting an outsider appropriate.  “No,” said Stock.

“If you want to get into the discussion of, does this guy know more about punting than the other guy? Do you want to read my bio? I’m not promoting myself, but I know what I know and I know what I’ve done and I know the people I’ve worked with.”

Wow.  Where to begin?  Do you want to read my bio?  This is a response you’d expect to hear from a 4th grader at recess being taunted by a classmate than a professional coach being asked legitimate questions by a reporter.  Beyond questions about maturity, what does this tell us about Stock’s intellect?  What does his bio have to do with the fact that the Packers’ punter is ranked 26th in the league?  Or that the Packers dumped a guy who is in the top 10 in the NFL in gross?  We know what he’s done and who he’s worth with — at least as it matters to the Packers.  It’s not impressive.

There’s more:

“It’s a matter of, this is the guy who is coaching that position. And this is his philosophy and this is the team’s philosophy, and that’s the philosophy we’ll follow.”

More insecurity.  Follow that logic to its natural conclusion and performance doesn’t matter.  Frost could be averaging 8 yards a punt and, according to Stock, “it’s a matter of, this is the guy who is coaching that position.”  The concerns with Ryan, as I understand them, had much more to do with technique than philosophy, and an outside consultant would have focused on technique.

Bottom line: My belief is that Ted Thompson, Mike McCarthy and Mike Stock cut Jon Ryan in favor of Derrick Frost for one reason: Devin Hester.  It was a classic overreaction that has demonstrably hurt the team.  And the concern now is that they are sticking with the decision — and defending the indefensible — out of a stubborn desire to be proven that it’s not the mistake it appears to be.

There is one reasons to stick with Frost at this point, I suppose.  He is the holder for Mason Crosby and introducing a new holder at this point in the season could prove disastrous.  But if that’s why they’re keeping him, they ought to be touting Frost’s holding skills in public or they’ll leave Packer fans scratching their heads.

7 Responses to “More on Derrick Frost, Jon Ryan”

  1. Bruce Johnson Says:

    And I thought it was a chemistry thing or a lack thereof between Stock & Ryan. But it’s a panic button thing.

  2. Cindy V Says:

    I read the article this morning and posted here under the older discussion of Frost. My first impression was that Stock has an ego problem. What a disaster for the Packers although I don’t think TT or MM will can his sorry ass.

  3. bucky Says:

    That article certainly portrayed Stock as a guy more interested in protecting his turf than in achieving the best results for the football team. I’m curious to see what the reaction from McCarthy and Thompson will be.

    My biggest criticism of Mike Sherman (as both Head Coach and GM) was that he had differing standards of accountability for different people. Some players and coaches were held to account for even slight misteps (Ed Donatell), while others (I’m thinking Ahmad Carroll and Brett Favre in particular) could screw up on a daily basis and bear little consequence. I’m not sure the reason behind it, but I imagine that personal relationships and the fear of criticism played a big part. The new regime seems to be doing better in this regard, but I’d hate for this coaching staff and administration to turn out to be the sort that looks out for its own to the detriment of the team.

  4. Cindy V Says:

    There was an interesting column in today’s Milwauke Journal Sentinel about the lack of emotion with the Packers. It pretty much lays the blame on TT and his way of keeping things under tight control.

  5. bucky Says:

    Well, after watching the performance of the special teams today, I believe Mr. Stock should be given the opportunity to put that resume to good use.

  6. saladyears Says:

    What he must have as far as a McCarthy debt to him …I can only guess.
    His coaching and his sqaud’s play have been disastrous. No doubt about it–he cost them the game today against Carolina, (and many momentum shifts in other games).

    The kicker and punter have had to take an angle for tackle on far too many plays with the number of over 40 yardline returns.


  7. Stock Plummets | Cheesehead TV Says:

    […] regarding his refusal to allow Jon Ryan to see a kicking specialist. (Steve over at PackerGeeks has a great post on this) Then came his units abysmal performance yesterday in just about every facet of the game. […]

Leave a Reply to Bruce Johnson Cancel reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in: Logo

You are commenting using your account. Log Out /  Change )

Google photo

You are commenting using your Google account. Log Out /  Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out /  Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out /  Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: