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	<title>Comments on: Some Thoughts</title>
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	<description>All Things Green Bay Packers</description>
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		<title>By: awhayes</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-5006</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[awhayes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 20:41:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-5006</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Just wanted to say something re the above comments. I want to clarify that we truly do welcome all comments on this site - including DDD&#039;s comments. The past 2 weeks have been brutal for Packer fans as our playoff hopes dim (though there is still light...anything is possible with Frerotte and Childress). We all get worked up and ticked off about lots of things because we love our team. I have noticed, however, a few heated exchanges in the comments lately. While we continue to strive to have a wide open forum for discussion, I guess I would encourage us to move beyond these recent exchanges and get back to the norm of civil and insightful discourse re our beloved (or perhaps now beliked) Packers. 

I have to admit that I take pride in this blog in part because we appear to attract very passionate yet sensible Packer/NFL fans. Maybe it&#039;s just a parental bias or something, but I continue to be thoroughly impressed by the consistently thoughtful commentary on this site. Under the collective direction of Packergeek Nation, the Pack might be 9-3 right now! So again, I just want to clarify that DDD and everyone else, you are always welcome at Packergeeks (and feel free to undress my next post on why the Pack may not be done yet this year).]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just wanted to say something re the above comments. I want to clarify that we truly do welcome all comments on this site &#8211; including DDD&#8217;s comments. The past 2 weeks have been brutal for Packer fans as our playoff hopes dim (though there is still light&#8230;anything is possible with Frerotte and Childress). We all get worked up and ticked off about lots of things because we love our team. I have noticed, however, a few heated exchanges in the comments lately. While we continue to strive to have a wide open forum for discussion, I guess I would encourage us to move beyond these recent exchanges and get back to the norm of civil and insightful discourse re our beloved (or perhaps now beliked) Packers. </p>
<p>I have to admit that I take pride in this blog in part because we appear to attract very passionate yet sensible Packer/NFL fans. Maybe it&#8217;s just a parental bias or something, but I continue to be thoroughly impressed by the consistently thoughtful commentary on this site. Under the collective direction of Packergeek Nation, the Pack might be 9-3 right now! So again, I just want to clarify that DDD and everyone else, you are always welcome at Packergeeks (and feel free to undress my next post on why the Pack may not be done yet this year).</p>
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		<title>By: Ace</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-5003</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Ace]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 19:19:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-5003</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Playcalling not the issue.  In fact it was stellar for much of the game.  Execution is the issue.  Bad luck is the issue.  O line should be able to create enough space for a back to get through most of the time.  On key series Humphrey blew a block on 2d and Colledge was flattened on 3rd.
31 points should win most NFL games.  Stock is gone--influenced Ryan&#039;s departure and engineers terrible kickoff coverage.  Coaching error--last two kickoffs should have been like Carolina&#039;s to us--grounders or squibs.  Field position was key in this game--coverage and Frost made the difference.  Unlucky on fumble coverage.  Last year we won close games and the ball bounced right and we had few injuries.   We could just as easily be 9-3 now.  Look to next year---D line, linebackers, an O lineman and a PUNTER.  Pack will definitely be back.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Playcalling not the issue.  In fact it was stellar for much of the game.  Execution is the issue.  Bad luck is the issue.  O line should be able to create enough space for a back to get through most of the time.  On key series Humphrey blew a block on 2d and Colledge was flattened on 3rd.<br />
31 points should win most NFL games.  Stock is gone&#8211;influenced Ryan&#8217;s departure and engineers terrible kickoff coverage.  Coaching error&#8211;last two kickoffs should have been like Carolina&#8217;s to us&#8211;grounders or squibs.  Field position was key in this game&#8211;coverage and Frost made the difference.  Unlucky on fumble coverage.  Last year we won close games and the ball bounced right and we had few injuries.   We could just as easily be 9-3 now.  Look to next year&#8212;D line, linebackers, an O lineman and a PUNTER.  Pack will definitely be back.</p>
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		<title>By: Aaron</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-5000</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Aaron]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 18:51:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-5000</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[56Coop - Chillar wears the brace to constrain his shoulder which he injured earlier in the year.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>56Coop &#8211; Chillar wears the brace to constrain his shoulder which he injured earlier in the year.</p>
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		<title>By: bucky</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4999</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[bucky]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:28:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4999</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[&lt;i&gt;Bucky, Sorry for the compliment. &lt;/i&gt;

Yeah, I don&#039;t take compliments well.  If only that were my greatest failing. . . .

&lt;i&gt;In response to DDD criticism last week, I encouraged him to get more creative with his insults. &lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m not sure what it means for DDD to &quot;get more creative with his insults.&quot;  You bitch about playcalling, he bitches about your bitching.  Sure, it gets old to read some of his criticisms, but it gets old hearing the same stuff about playcalling as well.  

&lt;i&gt;So I’m fine taking criticism. I’ve got a lot of experience with it.&lt;/i&gt;

Perhaps so, but I gotta say, that fact is not evident from your responses to DDD.  

&lt;i&gt;And I’m not chasing anyone off. I merely suggested that DDD go somewhere else to whine about posts that question playcalling.&lt;/i&gt;

What you&#039;re saying here is you don&#039;t want to hear this particular criticism.  While it does not directly contradict your earlier statement, it&#039;s not really consistent with it either.  

&lt;i&gt; Because I’m going to do it when I think it’s warranted. &lt;/i&gt;

It&#039;s your (and Andy&#039;s) blog, so you are of course entitled.  

&lt;i&gt;As I wrote: “We’re happy to take criticism. We do it all the time.”&lt;/i&gt;

That&#039;s kinda the whole idea behind a comments-enabled blog, right?  You put some ideas out there- some of which are pretty good, some which may be full of shit- and you get responses from your readers.  It&#039;s much more directly interactive than writing for a magazine or appearing on a news show; when I watched the flat-foreheaded Terry Bradshaw tell the nation that the departure of Brett Favre was the sole cause of the Packers&#039; troubles this season, the only creatures who benefitted from the expletives I uttered were my three cats (the wife was fortunately upstairs and out of earshot).

That&#039;s one of the things I like about blogs in general.  I like this blog in particular because the level of discussion is exponentially higher than at, say, JSOnline, which appears to be visited only by 12 year old boys.  Part of that higher level of discussion is DDD, whose points I find in general to be a lot better thought out than most.  Is he right all the time?  Of course not; only I am. . . .  

But I digress.  He&#039;s got a burr up his ass about criticizing the playcalling.  I don&#039;t agree with him, at least not entirely, but that&#039;s his beef, and he&#039;s gonna air that beef whenever the opportunity arises.  I&#039;ve got a beef about Brady Poppinga actually being paid to play professional football, and I&#039;m gonna air &lt;i&gt;my&lt;/i&gt; beef as well; if not here, then wherever I can, to whomever will listen (and even many who won&#039;t, such as the aforementioned felines).

I guess this is a long way of saying this:  just let it go.    

&lt;i&gt;FWIW, I smiled the entire time I wrote this post..in response to your criticism. Thanks for weighing in.&lt;/i&gt;

I&#039;m pleased that I could bring joy to someone this holiday season.  I&#039;m hopeful that our football team of choice can do the same.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Bucky, Sorry for the compliment. </i></p>
<p>Yeah, I don&#8217;t take compliments well.  If only that were my greatest failing. . . .</p>
<p><i>In response to DDD criticism last week, I encouraged him to get more creative with his insults. </i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m not sure what it means for DDD to &#8220;get more creative with his insults.&#8221;  You bitch about playcalling, he bitches about your bitching.  Sure, it gets old to read some of his criticisms, but it gets old hearing the same stuff about playcalling as well.  </p>
<p><i>So I’m fine taking criticism. I’ve got a lot of experience with it.</i></p>
<p>Perhaps so, but I gotta say, that fact is not evident from your responses to DDD.  </p>
<p><i>And I’m not chasing anyone off. I merely suggested that DDD go somewhere else to whine about posts that question playcalling.</i></p>
<p>What you&#8217;re saying here is you don&#8217;t want to hear this particular criticism.  While it does not directly contradict your earlier statement, it&#8217;s not really consistent with it either.  </p>
<p><i> Because I’m going to do it when I think it’s warranted. </i></p>
<p>It&#8217;s your (and Andy&#8217;s) blog, so you are of course entitled.  </p>
<p><i>As I wrote: “We’re happy to take criticism. We do it all the time.”</i></p>
<p>That&#8217;s kinda the whole idea behind a comments-enabled blog, right?  You put some ideas out there- some of which are pretty good, some which may be full of shit- and you get responses from your readers.  It&#8217;s much more directly interactive than writing for a magazine or appearing on a news show; when I watched the flat-foreheaded Terry Bradshaw tell the nation that the departure of Brett Favre was the sole cause of the Packers&#8217; troubles this season, the only creatures who benefitted from the expletives I uttered were my three cats (the wife was fortunately upstairs and out of earshot).</p>
<p>That&#8217;s one of the things I like about blogs in general.  I like this blog in particular because the level of discussion is exponentially higher than at, say, JSOnline, which appears to be visited only by 12 year old boys.  Part of that higher level of discussion is DDD, whose points I find in general to be a lot better thought out than most.  Is he right all the time?  Of course not; only I am. . . .  </p>
<p>But I digress.  He&#8217;s got a burr up his ass about criticizing the playcalling.  I don&#8217;t agree with him, at least not entirely, but that&#8217;s his beef, and he&#8217;s gonna air that beef whenever the opportunity arises.  I&#8217;ve got a beef about Brady Poppinga actually being paid to play professional football, and I&#8217;m gonna air <i>my</i> beef as well; if not here, then wherever I can, to whomever will listen (and even many who won&#8217;t, such as the aforementioned felines).</p>
<p>I guess this is a long way of saying this:  just let it go.    </p>
<p><i>FWIW, I smiled the entire time I wrote this post..in response to your criticism. Thanks for weighing in.</i></p>
<p>I&#8217;m pleased that I could bring joy to someone this holiday season.  I&#8217;m hopeful that our football team of choice can do the same.</p>
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		<title>By: 56Coop</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4996</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[56Coop]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:14:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4996</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Does anyone know what that contraption Chillar wears on his arm is--or what it&#039;s for?

BTW, there are some good football minds at this blog--it&#039;s a good read.  Just reading the posts helps me keep from kickin the cat when I think about the game yesterday (Just kiddin--wouldn;t really kick my cat)]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Does anyone know what that contraption Chillar wears on his arm is&#8211;or what it&#8217;s for?</p>
<p>BTW, there are some good football minds at this blog&#8211;it&#8217;s a good read.  Just reading the posts helps me keep from kickin the cat when I think about the game yesterday (Just kiddin&#8211;wouldn;t really kick my cat)</p>
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		<title>By: Trav</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4992</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Trav]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 10:32:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4992</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Due to the weather and normal heavy traffic heading south from GB, I had 4 hours and 37 min. (rather than the traditional &lt;2 hrs) to discuss and debate the game with my friend who made the drive from Milwaukee with me.  I am not sure if it was the amount of time we spent together trying to get home or his powers of presuasion, but I bought into his &quot;Techmo Bowl&quot; plan for the 3 downs at the 1.  His contention was that the Packers just call 3 QB sneaks in a row if they had to, get the yard, and punch the ball in.  (It was one of his go to plays from the 1 back in college with Techmo Bowl.  Just run into the line and eventually he would get in from the 1.)  Given the distance, the need to run some clock, and other factors, in his mind, it was the safest thing to do.  I think he just wore me down in that the Tecmo Bowl option would have been better than what they had done.  

The lack of coverage on special teams and the fact that in the 2nd and 4th Q&#039;s, Crosby could only get it to the goal line with his best kickoff effort, you knew that field position would be an issue. (which it turned out to be).  In the 1st and 3rd, he was 5-8 yards deep on kickoffs.    

Looking back, I agree that the quick hitter to Kuhn would have been a great play, if used on first down.  I was surprised they didn&#039;t go play action to the TE at least one time, where Bubba and others made their living back in the day.

On the final drive, from what I could see in my seat (and not seeing any replays as of yet), on 1st down, Jennings had a step, but was overthrown on the sideline route.  Just a bad throw.  Our assumption was that they would go short on 2nd down to make 3rd down more manageable.  Instead, AR rolled out and threw on the run.  Driver had 2 steps on the coverage, but was woefully underthrown, with Rodgers throwing off his back foot.  

The loss and the way it happened made that 4 hour ride seem like 4 days.  Too frustrating.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Due to the weather and normal heavy traffic heading south from GB, I had 4 hours and 37 min. (rather than the traditional &lt;2 hrs) to discuss and debate the game with my friend who made the drive from Milwaukee with me.  I am not sure if it was the amount of time we spent together trying to get home or his powers of presuasion, but I bought into his &#8220;Techmo Bowl&#8221; plan for the 3 downs at the 1.  His contention was that the Packers just call 3 QB sneaks in a row if they had to, get the yard, and punch the ball in.  (It was one of his go to plays from the 1 back in college with Techmo Bowl.  Just run into the line and eventually he would get in from the 1.)  Given the distance, the need to run some clock, and other factors, in his mind, it was the safest thing to do.  I think he just wore me down in that the Tecmo Bowl option would have been better than what they had done.  </p>
<p>The lack of coverage on special teams and the fact that in the 2nd and 4th Q&#8217;s, Crosby could only get it to the goal line with his best kickoff effort, you knew that field position would be an issue. (which it turned out to be).  In the 1st and 3rd, he was 5-8 yards deep on kickoffs.    </p>
<p>Looking back, I agree that the quick hitter to Kuhn would have been a great play, if used on first down.  I was surprised they didn&#8217;t go play action to the TE at least one time, where Bubba and others made their living back in the day.</p>
<p>On the final drive, from what I could see in my seat (and not seeing any replays as of yet), on 1st down, Jennings had a step, but was overthrown on the sideline route.  Just a bad throw.  Our assumption was that they would go short on 2nd down to make 3rd down more manageable.  Instead, AR rolled out and threw on the run.  Driver had 2 steps on the coverage, but was woefully underthrown, with Rodgers throwing off his back foot.  </p>
<p>The loss and the way it happened made that 4 hour ride seem like 4 days.  Too frustrating.</p>
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		<title>By: Wamzlee</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4985</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[Wamzlee]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 05:41:40 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4985</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Thanks for considering my argument in your entry sfhayes!  This is my first time at this blog (did a search for &quot;aaron rodgers&quot; right after the game was over on google blog search) and so far I am really impressed with the site.  Since I haven&#039;t been around too long, I am not too clear on what the issue is with DDD and you guys.  But I feel that having my counterargument considered was pretty respectable, even if it got shot down.  

But I can sort of see where people are arguing about criticizing the playcalling.  Hindsight is 20/20, and we can &quot;Shoulda Coulda Woulda&quot; all we want, but if everything went according to plan, the score would be 48-0, Packers win.  But you know the offense got rolling on all cylinders in the second half, the way they should!  McCarthy called way too many pass plays for my tastes, but you know what...they got us touchdowns.

One play that really sticks in my mind though is that botched snap by Wells.  If that didn&#039;t happen, I wonder what position the Packers would be in?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for considering my argument in your entry sfhayes!  This is my first time at this blog (did a search for &#8220;aaron rodgers&#8221; right after the game was over on google blog search) and so far I am really impressed with the site.  Since I haven&#8217;t been around too long, I am not too clear on what the issue is with DDD and you guys.  But I feel that having my counterargument considered was pretty respectable, even if it got shot down.  </p>
<p>But I can sort of see where people are arguing about criticizing the playcalling.  Hindsight is 20/20, and we can &#8220;Shoulda Coulda Woulda&#8221; all we want, but if everything went according to plan, the score would be 48-0, Packers win.  But you know the offense got rolling on all cylinders in the second half, the way they should!  McCarthy called way too many pass plays for my tastes, but you know what&#8230;they got us touchdowns.</p>
<p>One play that really sticks in my mind though is that botched snap by Wells.  If that didn&#8217;t happen, I wonder what position the Packers would be in?</p>
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		<title>By: dreampipe</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4984</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dreampipe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 05:11:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4984</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[bottom line

the kicking game/field possition was the difference in that game.  they NEVER ONCE had to drive longer than 60 yards for a TD.  Five TDs on drives of 42, 55, 17,  50, and 55 yards.  we could have survived those steve smith circus catches if the field possition was less out of whack.  btw, if a head coach of a team i own/manage goes for it on 4th in a tie game with less than 2:00 to go and misses (here is a chance to take the lead! in close one near the end)... he&#039;s fired before the monday morning film session.  

i&#039;m as disgusted as the next hardcore Pack fan, but we still have an outside shot at the playoffs, right?  ...TT, MM need to give Todd Sauerbrun a call and let leroy butler coach special teams, anyone&#039;s better than Mike Stock.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>bottom line</p>
<p>the kicking game/field possition was the difference in that game.  they NEVER ONCE had to drive longer than 60 yards for a TD.  Five TDs on drives of 42, 55, 17,  50, and 55 yards.  we could have survived those steve smith circus catches if the field possition was less out of whack.  btw, if a head coach of a team i own/manage goes for it on 4th in a tie game with less than 2:00 to go and misses (here is a chance to take the lead! in close one near the end)&#8230; he&#8217;s fired before the monday morning film session.  </p>
<p>i&#8217;m as disgusted as the next hardcore Pack fan, but we still have an outside shot at the playoffs, right?  &#8230;TT, MM need to give Todd Sauerbrun a call and let leroy butler coach special teams, anyone&#8217;s better than Mike Stock.</p>
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		<title>By: sfhayes</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4983</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[sfhayes]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 03:48:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4983</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[With you on everything but the 4th down call, though, as I say, I can see the argument for taking the points.  My concern was that given our deficiencies on special teams and defense, the 7 points could have been the difference.  But zero points would have been trouble -- as we found out.   I especially agree with you on crosby&#039;s &quot;uncanny openfield tackling ability.&quot;  Maybe he could play linebacker, too?]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>With you on everything but the 4th down call, though, as I say, I can see the argument for taking the points.  My concern was that given our deficiencies on special teams and defense, the 7 points could have been the difference.  But zero points would have been trouble &#8212; as we found out.   I especially agree with you on crosby&#8217;s &#8220;uncanny openfield tackling ability.&#8221;  Maybe he could play linebacker, too?</p>
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		<title>By: dreampipe</title>
		<link>http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/2008/11/30/some-thoughts/#comment-4982</link>
		<dc:creator><![CDATA[dreampipe]]></dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Dec 2008 03:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://packergeeks.wordpress.com/?p=2429#comment-4982</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Look here guys.

No self-respecting NFL coach would EVER go for it on 4th down in a tie ball game with less than 2mins remaining.  You always take the points.  The pleay calling error was on 3rd down just before that! WHY NOT TRY ANY MISDIRECTION AT ALL, EVEN IF YOU STILL RUN IT UP THE MIDDLE! no fakes no where, and thus easy to stop.  My money play, which i was myself screaming at the TV in a public bar was fake FB, naked boot Rodgers TD! even a pass on that 3rd down would hav e been better than just running it strait ahead three straight times with no misdirection or creativity whatsoever.  Playcalling was a serious factor, although not the greatest and most upsetting factor in our horrible loss today and other prior weeks.  our kicking game is pitiful.  kick coverage, punting, and basically every aspect of special teams save crosby&#039;s leg and uncanny openfield tackling ability.  

Steve, 3rd and goal... misdirection, anything, counter, draw, my fake FB naked boot, any pass would have had a better chance.  we we gashing them with the pass all 2nd half long.  never go for it on 4th and goal at the end of a tie game.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Look here guys.</p>
<p>No self-respecting NFL coach would EVER go for it on 4th down in a tie ball game with less than 2mins remaining.  You always take the points.  The pleay calling error was on 3rd down just before that! WHY NOT TRY ANY MISDIRECTION AT ALL, EVEN IF YOU STILL RUN IT UP THE MIDDLE! no fakes no where, and thus easy to stop.  My money play, which i was myself screaming at the TV in a public bar was fake FB, naked boot Rodgers TD! even a pass on that 3rd down would hav e been better than just running it strait ahead three straight times with no misdirection or creativity whatsoever.  Playcalling was a serious factor, although not the greatest and most upsetting factor in our horrible loss today and other prior weeks.  our kicking game is pitiful.  kick coverage, punting, and basically every aspect of special teams save crosby&#8217;s leg and uncanny openfield tackling ability.  </p>
<p>Steve, 3rd and goal&#8230; misdirection, anything, counter, draw, my fake FB naked boot, any pass would have had a better chance.  we we gashing them with the pass all 2nd half long.  never go for it on 4th and goal at the end of a tie game.</p>
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